• Registered: 2002-06-11
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Topic: For those of you who still play wc3

Do you any of you guys have problems with destroyers? Like in most 2v2 games or 1v1 games when you're human you can pretty much keep an undead player in check. But once destroyers hit the battle field it seems like a completely different game.

You can’t slow them with magic.
Rifle men die to focus fire.
Gyros are.. well...gyros.
Tanks are too slow to keep up with them.

I dont know, but it seems that every game i play once those mofos hit the air the game is completely in favor of the undead.

Wc3 seems pretty balanced, but destroyers are just a little bit too good. I mean when you see every undead player in the game go for destroyers every time you know something is wrong.  What really pushes them over the edge is unholy aura, having a flying unit that is super fast and can not be slown down or hit with storm bolt really fucks over humans. Especially the fact that they can not get netted.

I think destroyers should be used for what they are meant for, a anti casting unit. Not a unit which is massed every time against any strategy.

I think blizzard needs to lower the hp to about 700-800, or make it so it requires more resources for the undead to hit tier 3. Because all the undead needs to do is mass fiends and statues, store enough resources for tier 3, then go for the destroyer upgrade, and instantly he has 4-5 destroyers in the air.

And that also brings me to another issue. A unit should never be immune to its weakness. I think statues need to be unarmored so you can actually take those things down, instead of chasing them all day long and getting burnt, because of unholy aura.

2 Reply by Kenak

  • Registered: 2004-11-18
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Didn't they already get heavily nerfed in another patch?

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3 Reply by ShiB

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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

I haven't played in a while but  yea I think I agree. I think the destroyers should be added to the necro/banshee making building, because while all other 3 races use their casters UD players never use them on a consistant basis. I dunno if thats the right fix or not though.

4 Reply by Mr.D

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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Tanks / rifles

Your tanks dont need to be fast. As long as you keep your army with them, the undead player is foolish to attack, which gives you the advantage. He is forced to get wagons, and those go down in seconds to rifles.

5 Reply by Ne0rC

  • Registered: 2004-06-30
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: Kenak
Didn't they already get heavily nerfed in another patch?

They only got slightly nerfed.

Like a slight damage reduction, and a drop of 100-200 hp or something.

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  • Registered: 2002-06-11
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: Mr. D
Tanks / rifles

Your tanks dont need to be fast. As long as you keep your army with them, the undead player is foolish to attack, which gives you the advantage. He is forced to get wagons, and those go down in seconds to rifles.

The problem is that it takes considerable time to get tanks up and they aren't effective. In the sense that statues are effective out of the box because of healing and mana regen.

Waiting and saving resources for tanks leaves your army defensless. If you devert funds for saving up for tanks you can't get enough gold to get a force of casters up and running.

Tanks do work, but they are too slow and it takes too long to get them up to speed.

  • Registered: 2003-07-24
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Dont  let them the time to get 'em.

From what i remember UD + Tier3 = GG NO RE KKTXBYE

rush'em

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8 Reply by Mr.D

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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: jordan

Originally posted by: Mr. D
Tanks / rifles

Your tanks dont need to be fast. As long as you keep your army with them, the undead player is foolish to attack, which gives you the advantage. He is forced to get wagons, and those go down in seconds to rifles.

The problem is that it takes considerable time to get tanks up and they aren't effective. In the sense that statues are effective out of the box because of healing and mana regen.

Waiting and saving resources for tanks leaves your army defensless. If you devert funds for saving up for tanks you can't get enough gold to get a force of casters up and running.

Tanks do work, but they are too slow and it takes too long to get them up to speed.

There is no reason why you shouldnt be able to go rifle caster and at least hold off your opponent with towers and rifles till you have a couple tanks (you only need two or three). Plus if he switches strats you can fragteam mortar any ground troops and suicide his expansion with your tanks.

9 Reply by Kenak

  • Registered: 2004-11-18
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: Ne0rC

Originally posted by: Kenak
Didn't they already get heavily nerfed in another patch?

They only got slightly nerfed.

Like a slight damage reduction, and a drop of 100-200 hp or something.

No, they changed all sorts of other things like the armor type, the amount of armor, recovering mana from mana fountains, etc.

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  • Registered: 2002-10-29
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: Kenak

Originally posted by: Ne0rC

Originally posted by: Kenak
Didn't they already get heavily nerfed in another patch?

They only got slightly nerfed.

Like a slight damage reduction, and a drop of 100-200 hp or something.

No, they changed all sorts of other things like the armor type, the amount of armor, recovering mana from mana fountains, etc.

They never lost actual base hit points, they lost 2 armor, which was the "100-200" hp.
They've been light armor type for quite a while now (since the armor changes in TFT beta), so i don't really know what you are talking about.
The mana fountain "nerf" really didn't play into effect for many maps anyway (only gnoll wood), and even then, due to their mana degeneration, Destroyers would most likely attain a neutral mana ratio, neither a recovery nor loss (of course they would still be pumped by the statues spirit touch). However, this mana acquisition was once again drained quickly once they left the fountain.
The only true "nerf" was the fixing of a bug which unintentionally caused destroyers to deal twice as much damage as intended.



[i]Originally posted by: jordan
[/i]And that also brings me to another issue. A unit should never be immune to its weakness. I think statues need to be unarmored so you can actually take those things down, instead of chasing them all day long and getting burnt, because of unholy aura.


Imbalance would be for destroyers to have heavy armor (which may i remind us all, that spellbreakers once had this.)
No, light armor is fine, in fact it is far worse than unarmored because they take 200% damage from piercing rater than 150% (unarmored). Also note, that as far as I know, catapults cannot attack air units. In fact, no siege units can hit air units w/o the use of ensnare or web and let's face it, the orc vs. ud matchup is already shifted enough towards one end as it is. So making destroyers unarmored would actually be considered a buff.

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11 Reply by jordan

  • Registered: 2002-06-11
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: Mr. D

Originally posted by: jordan

Originally posted by: Mr. D
Tanks / rifles

Your tanks dont need to be fast. As long as you keep your army with them, the undead player is foolish to attack, which gives you the advantage. He is forced to get wagons, and those go down in seconds to rifles.

The problem is that it takes considerable time to get tanks up and they aren't effective. In the sense that statues are effective out of the box because of healing and mana regen.

Waiting and saving resources for tanks leaves your army defensless. If you devert funds for saving up for tanks you can't get enough gold to get a force of casters up and running.

Tanks do work, but they are too slow and it takes too long to get them up to speed.

There is no reason why you shouldnt be able to go rifle caster and at least hold off your opponent with towers and rifles till you have a couple tanks (you only need two or three). Plus if he switches strats you can fragteam mortar any ground troops and suicide his expansion with your tanks.

Just no for multiple reasons. First of all you wouldnt go rifle casters if the undead is going to get destroyers which own magic. Second towers are weak to magic damage. Third just no to everything you said.

Any strat that requires someone to wait in their base all game long to hopefully make a counter to beat the destroyers is completely counterintuitive.

Anyone who plays wc3 realizes that if you're in your base all day long you're losing, because you arent creeping and you're letting the undead get stronger and stronger.

That is just a bad idea.




Originally posted by: tassadar_ums

Imbalance would be for destroyers to have heavy armor (which may i remind us all, that spellbreakers once had this.)
No, light armor is fine, in fact it is far worse than unarmored because they take 200% damage from piercing rater than 150% (unarmored). Also note, that as far as I know, catapults cannot attack air units. In fact, no siege units can hit air units w/o the use of ensnare or web and let's face it, the orc vs. ud matchup is already shifted enough towards one end as it is. So making destroyers unarmored would actually be considered a buff.

I was talking about them when they are in statue form son.

Considering every race doesnt produce enough magic damage until tier 3 to actually quickly counter statues. I think it would be the natural choice, since the statues are casters, before they morph into destroyers, that they would be unarmored.

12 Reply by Mr.D

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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

Originally posted by: jordan

Originally posted by: Mr. D

Originally posted by: jordan

Originally posted by: Mr. D
Tanks / rifles

Your tanks dont need to be fast. As long as you keep your army with them, the undead player is foolish to attack, which gives you the advantage. He is forced to get wagons, and those go down in seconds to rifles.

The problem is that it takes considerable time to get tanks up and they aren't effective. In the sense that statues are effective out of the box because of healing and mana regen.

Waiting and saving resources for tanks leaves your army defensless. If you devert funds for saving up for tanks you can't get enough gold to get a force of casters up and running.

Tanks do work, but they are too slow and it takes too long to get them up to speed.

There is no reason why you shouldnt be able to go rifle caster and at least hold off your opponent with towers and rifles till you have a couple tanks (you only need two or three). Plus if he switches strats you can fragteam mortar any ground troops and suicide his expansion with your tanks.

Just no for multiple reasons. First of all you wouldnt go rifle casters if the undead is going to get destroyers which own magic. Second towers are weak to magic damage. Third just no to everything you said.

Any strat that requires someone to wait in their base all game long to hopefully make a counter to beat the destroyers is completely counterintuitive.

Anyone who plays wc3 realizes that if you're in your base all day long you're losing, because you arent creeping and you're letting the undead get stronger and stronger.

That is just a bad idea.




Originally posted by: tassadar_ums

Imbalance would be for destroyers to have heavy armor (which may i remind us all, that spellbreakers once had this.)
No, light armor is fine, in fact it is far worse than unarmored because they take 200% damage from piercing rater than 150% (unarmored). Also note, that as far as I know, catapults cannot attack air units. In fact, no siege units can hit air units w/o the use of ensnare or web and let's face it, the orc vs. ud matchup is already shifted enough towards one end as it is. So making destroyers unarmored would actually be considered a buff.

I was talking about them when they are in statue form son.

Considering every race doesnt produce enough magic damage until tier 3 to actually quickly counter statues. I think it would be the natural choice, since the statues are casters, before they morph into destroyers, that they would be unarmored.

You don't have to listen to me. Go watch ANY hu v ud replay from wc3l.

EDIT: thats not to say that there isn't a disparity between HU and UD atm, but it is possible. I think ToD exemplifies the potential of human so check out some of his replays.

13 Reply by jordan

  • Registered: 2002-06-11
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Re: For those of you who still play wc3

I do in fact watch many hu v ud replays and that strat is never used. Turtling up in a base all day long and letting the undead creep. That is a sure fire way to lose.

I'm looking for real counters here, not tactics that depend on luck and on towers. Every unit in the game should have a straight counter.

It shouldnt be that all the undead player has to do is attack ground, compared to the human who is jumping through hoops just to survive.