Topic: PSU, or what?

So, my computer has seemingly killed itself as of early this morning. I went to bed at ~1:25, and based on some email information I have on my laptop, it shut itself off sometime between 1:40 and 2:30 AM. I awoke to a computer that will not react, at all, to the power button. On opening the case, the green mobo LED is lit, but pushing power does absolutely nothing. No fan movement, no whirring, no lights. I've tried making sure everything is seated, checking that everything is plugged in, basically all the basics. Not sure what's going on.

Some background: for the past week or so, my computer has occasionally gone into a complete lock (no mouse movement, no sound, anything). On rebooting, about ~40% of the time I'd be presented with a blue screen. On a second reboot, things would function as expected. This reboot issue has been intermittent for a while, and I've had seemingly power related problems in the past. Prior to installing Vista in December, my computer wouldn't boot; fans would spin, lights would come on, video would start up, then it would kill itself. Somehow it would occasionally successfully boot. After installing Vista (replaced mobo, RAM, and CPU) this problem went away, but the blue screen one cropped up.

Anyway, I'm faced with a computer that won't react to anything I do. Mobo light is on, but that doesn't say much I don't think. I think my Antec power supply is still under warranty, but honestly I might just drop some money on a new one if necessary than wrestling with the RMA process, especially since I've read that the replacements don't live much longer. Given the boot-related problems, and the reviews on Newegg claiming this particular PSU has a habit of dying after 13-16 months, I suspect it's the case, but figured I'd ask you guys before I spend any money/return anything.

Detailed system specs available if you think they'll help, don't want to wrestle through my Newegg invoices if I don't have to.

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Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Viserys
I awoke to a computer that will not react, at all, to the power button.

I've had this happen before, and the problem was that the power button had become disconnected from the case.  You should probably check that out before spending money.

<Viserys> I'm sitting here slapping someone's ass
<Viserys> and there's no gratification

Re: PSU, or what?

Pardon what's probably a stupid question, but I want to make sure of what I'm doing.
When you say "the button had become disconnect from the case", are you referring to the wires connecting the motherboard to the physical button mechanism, or something else entirely?

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Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Viserys
Pardon what's probably a stupid question, but I want to make sure of what I'm doing.
When you say "the button had become disconnect from the case", are you referring to the wires connecting the motherboard to the physical button mechanism

Yes.

<Viserys> I'm sitting here slapping someone's ass
<Viserys> and there's no gratification

Re: PSU, or what?

Thanks, I'll check that when I get home and get back when I have more information.

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Re: PSU, or what?

Most motherboards now have power up and reset buttons on itself, so you probably can look for those and bypass the case switch to check.

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Re: PSU, or what?

I've had a couple of heating related issues with my own computer and it seems to affect my computer in the same way, i.e. freezing, general lag, sudden resets. However, if the computer just dies and goes silent, you might be right

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Re: PSU, or what?

Well, as expected, everything is still connected (seemingly - unless there's a loose connection at the button itself, which is buried behind plastic). Replugged everything, made sure I had the pins correct, still nothing.

Re Errr: No such buttons to be found. sad

Next troubleshooting steps? neutral

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Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Viserys
Well, as expected, everything is still connected (seemingly - unless there's a loose connection at the button itself, which is buried behind plastic). Replugged everything, made sure I had the pins correct, still nothing.

This is what happened to me, and should not be discounted.  You should be able to get to the button if you try hard enough.

<Viserys> I'm sitting here slapping someone's ass
<Viserys> and there's no gratification

Re: PSU, or what?

I'm looking into that at the moment. Any ideas why my computer spontaneously shut itself off, though? Don't think any critical updates were waiting to be installed.

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11

Re: PSU, or what?

if you want to bypass looking for the button in your case, you can just throw a regular jumper on the two "power button" pins on the mobo.  it will simulate the button being pressed, and will tell you if its a button problem or not.

Probably unrelated: My computer would refuse to load into windows this morning, due to automatic updates installing something I didnt want.  (MSN turned automatic updates ON for me after I had specifically told microsoft to leave me alone)

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Re: PSU, or what?

We were also considering picking up a multimeter to make sure the button closes a circuit, but I doubt the switch is the problem, especially given:

The history of problems
Abruptly shutting itself off last night

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13

Re: PSU, or what?

Vis: the 13-16 month failure on your power supply is anecdotal at best, and a pretty shaky argument.  Antec tends to make good power supplies, so while it's possible it did die in this time period, it's unlikely it's due to any specific lifetime on that ps.   I'd go with bill's instinct on power switch first.

Originally posted by: Syko
if you want to bypass looking for the button in your case, you can just throw a regular jumper on the two "power button" pins

   An alternate, is to tap a flathead screwdriver on them, or even a butter knife.  I have frequently started PC's this way.

Alternatively, if you're not willing to stick metal objects on pins, disconnecting the power and reset button connectors, and putting the reset button jumper to the power button connector is equally effective, assuming the reset button isn't also disconnected at the plastic side.  You'd then use the reset button to turn on the PC.   A multimeter to test the switch  is certainly an option, but I wouldn't really go out and buy one if you don't already have one and don't plan on using it often.

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Re: PSU, or what?

I tried the reset button thing earlier this evening, it didn't work. Still unsure how a spontaneously broken switch would shut off my PC in the dead of night. sad

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Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Mikotren

Originally posted by: Viserys
I tried the reset button thing earlier this evening, it didn't work. Still unsure how a spontaneously broken switch would shut off my PC in the dead of night. sad

Possible heat or dead cpu fan issue?
Battery issues?

Overheating doesn't result in random shutting down in the middle of the night, it results in restarts, locking up, or unexpected behaviors during heavy use. A defective CPU fan will result in a busted CPU merely seconds after booting up, and your system will be KOed afterwards for good. He's talking about his desktop, so unless you're referring to the BIOS battery, it's irrelevant. (If the BIOS battery is dead, the BIOS settings will no longer be saved, but no such random shutting down will occur.)

Please don't give random advices on problems you have no idea about. It doesn't make you look superior or even smart.

To Viserys: I'd apply what Crast suggested, to bypass possible problems between your power switch and the mobo, and isolate the problem down to component before making any purchase. The last thing you want to do is buy something new and not solve your problem, only to get more frustrated.

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<d-end> watch anime
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Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Mikotren

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr
Overheating doesn't result in random shutting down in the middle of the night, it results in restarts, locking up, or unexpected behaviors during heavy use. A defective CPU fan will result in a busted CPU merely seconds after booting up, and your system will be KOed afterwards for good. He's talking about his desktop, so unless you're referring to the BIOS battery, it's irrelevant. (If the BIOS battery is dead, the BIOS settings will no longer be saved, but no such random shutting down will occur.)

Way bad WRONG you fucking idiot, now stfu and go play in the road.

Computer systems use thermal sensors mounted in the CPU housing to determine when the system is operating outside its specified range. Usually these thermal sensors have a circuit which establishes a trip point at which an interrupt is signaled to the operating system of the CPU to take appropriate action, e.g., to begin an orderly shutdown of the system when a certain temperature is reached.

For people like Errrrrrrr, I'll explain- this means that overheating will in fact turn it off.

If your heat sink is of sufficient quality, and your fan goes dead, it certainly wont cook your CPU "in mere seconds" (although booting with no heat sink at all certainly will)

Also he stated that he was experiencing lockups, and blue screens- which I agree are symptoms of overheating.

Wow, I really wouldn't have bothered to respond to your post if it wasn't because this is the tech support forum, and people could suffer real consequences because of your misinformation (not that many will listen to you, but a few might).

For starter, sensor-triggered shutdowns occur only during overheating, they do not prevent a power-up. So even if your argument is valid, it isn't relevant. Secondly, mobo sensor triggered shutdowns don't manifest in BSOD; they simply power the system down without warning (or with a mobo beep). Even the described behaviors before the Vista installation and replacement of parts didn't match this. And depending on the CPU, a dead fan on a heatsink that isn't designed to passively cool the CPU will certainly result in temperatures of over 100C rapidly (for reference's sake, the retail coolers that come with the recent generation CPUs typically only cool the CPU to 60C actively in reasonable environments - barely keeping them in safety range when under heavy load), and cause permanent damage. Your idea of being able to run a CPU for a while with no active cooling is so much a thing of the distant past that it's laughable.

As to isolating components, how do you propose him booting anything up if he can't send power to the mobo? He described his problem clearly, and the first thing everyone advised him to do is to get through it to do any sort of further testing. Perhaps you should pay more attention to everything, not just the fact that it's not a laptop. Or, perhaps you should pay less attention to this forum as a whole and just leave it alone, since all you seem to want to do is attract attention to yourself, instead of actually helping others. Go back to ESAD where you belong and troll there.

Viserys: I've had an incident in the past where the power button connection failure resulted in shutdown. I've also built a system for a friend some years ago where the power-up problem was solely due to the cheap case and its badly designed power button. It doesn't take much "effort" to trigger a shutdown - a bit of gravity on a loose wire or a gust of wind all can do that. I'd worry about the power button for now, and if you can verify that it isn't the power button, I'd then look into swapping the PSU.

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<d-end> watch anime
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Re: PSU, or what?

Thanks for the advice Errrrr. Forgot to post an update!

I followed Crast's advice the other night (bridging the two power pins myself), and the usual happened: absolutely nothing.

Today after work I'm going to be trying my old system (last year's mobo, CPU, and RAM are still all hooked up to each other) with my PSU. Crast said to keep it configured as it currently in, and hook up the 24-pin power as well as any auxillary mobo power (probably one small connection at worst?), and see if that boots to try and further isolate the problem. Sound like a plan?

I put in an Antec support ticket, but as expected their only advice was to inform me how to apply for an RMA -_-

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18

Re: PSU, or what?

Mikotren, even if your advice was valid, I deleted your post. This is tech support - there is zero fucking room for flaming or trolling. Think carefully before you respond, because if you attempt to troll or flame anyone else in this thread, I will simply ban you.

Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Dany
Mikotren, even if your advice was valid, I deleted your post. This is tech support - there is zero fucking room for flaming or trolling. Think carefully before you respond, because if you attempt to troll or flame anyone else in this thread, I will simply ban you.


If your looking for an excuse to ban me Kay just do it already, I attacked someone who attacked me first, and why wasn't this post in a p2p?

My Advice was valid-

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic105692.html

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61006

http://www.computing.net/answers/cpus/my-computer-wont-turn-on-dumb-fix-/14731.html

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1251782

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=275344

I'm simply not going to argue with you Errrrrr- your mostly wrong, and I'll leave it at that, except to say that perhaps folks should pay attention to who is really trolling here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YPcDeyYd0

Good luck Vis and maybe those links will help. They pretty much say what my post that got deleted did.







Re: PSU, or what?

Originally posted by: Mikotren

Originally posted by: Dany
Mikotren, even if your advice was valid, I deleted your post. This is tech support - there is zero fucking room for flaming or trolling. Think carefully before you respond, because if you attempt to troll or flame anyone else in this thread, I will simply ban you.


If your looking for an excuse to ban me Kay just do it already, I attacked someone who attacked me first, and why wasn't this post in a p2p?

My Advice was valid-

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic105692.html

http://www.pcguide.com/vb/showthread.php?t=61006

http://www.computing.net/answers/cpus/my-computer-wont-turn-on-dumb-fix-/14731.html

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1251782

http://www.houseofhelp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=275344\

Funny that the first advice most of these threads received is always "check your power button and make sure it's not faulty"? Upon verifying that, the following advices have been "verify PSU isn't faulty"? What are you trying to prove here? That we're suggesting to him the correct course of diagnostic actions?

I'm simply not going to argue with you Errrrrr- your mostly wrong, and I'll leave it at that, except to say that perhaps folks should pay attention to who is really trolling here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4YPcDeyYd0

So he underclocked it to nearly half of the stock speed on a 65W C2D and still booted to 52C core? I'd say that's more than enough proof that a stock CPU (especially an AMD one or previous generation C2D) will fry itself. Thanks for making my point instead of yours, genius. Also, since that video is now posted (and irresponsibly positioned as a "proof"), I have to advise anyone who values his/her money NOT to try what was shown in the video without researching into his/her CPU's thermo requirement extensively. Even then, unless you have an external thermometer, I'd be very reluctant to actually trying it out. It's like one of those bomb making videos - consider yourself warned.


Viserys: If you can try to plug the PSU to a barebone system with definitely reliable hardware, then I'd try and do that. As I understand correctly, you replaced your old CPU/mobo/RAM because you suspected that they were the source of your problem, and I'm not sure it'd really help isolate your problem now if you used them. If you had a friend who's willing to give it a try, you can always hook up the PSU to his system.

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<d-end> watch anime
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Re: PSU, or what?

Well, here's my situation.

My old setup worked fairly well for the most part, but I was set on replacing the CPU because I had to skimp when I originally bought my system (wanted a C2D). I wanted a new motherboard to guarantee I wouldn't have to do anything silly with the BIOS, and also because my old system (for whatever reason) would not take to new operating systems. Debian, Ubuntu, and Vista all failed to install multiples times. It was bizarre. XP worked fine.

I spent winter break scoping out parts. Picked out mobo and CPU that matched each other, and the new mobo necessitated new RAM (incompatible with my old speed). Aside from that power quirk I mentioned (spinning up and shutting off), I never had any problems with it. Furthermore, that problem vanished about a week before I replaced the hardware and installed Vista. So, now I have an assembled mobo+CPU+RAM unit stored away safely from my old XP config, that as far as I know, should be adequately reliable for testing. That's on my agenda for this evening.

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Re: PSU, or what?

Update:

Hooked up the PSU and power switch to my old system (mobo, CPU, 2 sticks of RAM) via the 24 pin connector, an aux 4 pin, and the 2 pin switch. As soon as I plugged it in and flipped the switch on the PSU, I knew something was up. The back fan's blue LEDs lit up, and the CPU fan came to life. Hit the front power button and everything functioned as expected.

So, next step?

Things I have yet to try:

Trying just one of my two RAM sticks in the new system
Praying fervently
Crying

tongue

Edit: Crast just suggested plugging my old Pentium D into the new mobo to try and isolate the problem further, but we're not sure if that's safe. Currently, everything is removed except for CPU, RAM, power. That includes sound, graphics, optical drives, hard disk.

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Re: PSU, or what?

Woot, I just won 5 bucks!! (not the psu)
Make sure you don't have bulgy capacitors on your mobo.
Sounds like your down to attempting a "barebones" boot.

Lemme know how this turns out smile

Re: PSU, or what?

I'd consider the current configuration pretty bare bones?

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Re: PSU, or what?

To get a jumpstart on my options, I fired Newegg an email asking about replacing my motherboard. Since the warranty is through Intel, I suspect they will direct me to Intel, but Intel's website suggests contacting the "place of purchase". I am a confused customer! sad

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