Topic: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Things to remember: These builds do not include any OS, Keyboard, Mice, Speakers or Monitors. That is up to the builder to choose.

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Small Form Factor Budget build
Price Range: $200-$300
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing, Little to no Gaming possible.


Processor: Intel Atom processor 230 - Integerated into Motherboard - N/A
Motherboard: Intel BOXD945GCLF Intel Atom processor 230 Intel 945GC Mini ITX Motherboard/CPU Combo - Retail - $79.99
RAM: Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Desktop Memory - Retail - $71.99
Video Card: N/A - N/A
Hard Drive:Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Power Supply: Included with Computer Case - N/A
Case: APEX MI-100 Black Steel Mini-ITX Tower Computer Case 250W Power Supply - Retail - $59.99


Total: $320.95

Comments: Basically an Internet Box. Small form factor allows the computer to be placed almost anywhere.
[Edit:] For all who question the choice of the Atom: This PC is a Budget Level SFF PC ($80 for mobo + CPU + Video Solution). Something your grandmother could use when you send her pictures of you on vacation. For $300 couple with a $150 Dollar LCD screen or even a old CRT and you got yourself a basic internet box. THAT'S ALL IT'S DESIGNED FOR. I don't care about mATX comparable boards, the size handicaps the mATX form factor to more limited locations. You can practically stick a ITX based system on a bookshelf.

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Small Form Factor Gaming Build
Price Range: $1000-$1100
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing and Gaming for you LAN partiers.


Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor - Retail - $189.99
Motherboard:DFI LP JR P45-T2RS LGA 775 Intel P45 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $164.99
RAM: 2x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $44.99 x2 = $89.98
Video Card: MSI R4850-512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $192.99
Hard Drive:Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail - $53.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX 620W ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply - Retail - $154.99
Case: Thermaltake VF1000BWS Black Aluminum Front Panel/ SECC Chassis MicroATX Desktop Computer Case - Retail - $129.99


Total: $1085.90

Comments: I took a lot of heat for putting an Atom based PC in my guide BUT there is a reason for my apparent madness. Read the SFF Budget PC comments on why I chose to recommend the Atom. Anyways this rig is in a way here to alleviate that critisism (even if the two PCs are in different leagues in terms of intended use and raw power). This build will look very familiar as it is almost identical to the Mainstream build. A few adjustments were made; the mATX board for Small Form Factor size, Q6600 for OCing (since it is likely a less experienced user would rather take the mainstream PC) and of course the mATX case.

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Home Theater Computer build
Price Range: $900-$1000
General Usage: TV Recording, Video Playback, HD-DVD Player, Blu-Ray Player


Processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 5000+ Brisbane 2.6GHz 2 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM2 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $66.00
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-MA78GPM-DS2H AM2+/AM2 AMD 780G HDMI Micro ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail - $104.99
RAM: G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $44.99
Video Card: N/A - N/A
TV Tuner Card:  Hauppauge WinTV-HVR 1800 MCE Kit 1128 PCI-Express x1 Interface - Retail - $99.99
Hard Drive:Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LG Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 4X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 5X DVD-RAM DVD-ROM: 16X Blu-ray DVD-ROM: 6X HD DVD-ROM: 3X DVD-ROM 40X CD-R 24X CD-RW 4MB Cache SATA Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM & 16X DVD±R DVD Burner - Retail - $149.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Thermaltake CL-P0114 120mm CPU Cooler - Retail - $44.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-450VX 450W ATX12V V2.2 Power Supply 90 - 264 V UL, CUL, CE, CB, FCC Class B, TUV, CCC, C-tick - Retail - $69.99
Case: SILVERSTONE Black Aluminum front panel, 0.8 mm SECC body SST-LC17-B ATX Media Center / HTPC Case - Retail - $119.99
Others: Logitech MX Air Silver/Black 8 Buttons USB 2.4 GHz Wireless Laser Rechargeable Air Mouse - Retail - $139.99
- X-Gene 01027 Black 86 Normal Keys 13 Function Keys USB RF Wireless Mini Keyboard with Optical Trackball Mouse Included - Retail  - $79.99


Total: $1024.99

Comments: The computer doesn't need to be particular powerful but silence and low energy usage/heat generation are must. As for the screen and sound system, that outside my current field of knowledge so that would be up to you. But with this PC you should have a solid base. I also is a hybrid Blu-Ray/HD-DVD Player.

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Budget build
Price Range: $400-$500
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing and Limited Gaming (Older and/or more simplistic games)


Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E7200 Wolfdale 2.53GHz 3MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $119.99
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-945GCM-S2C LGA 775 Intel 945GC Micro ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $47.99
RAM: Kingston 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $71.99
Video Card: N/A - N/A
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Power Supply: Thermaltake TR2 W0070RUC 430W ATX Power Supply 115/ 230 V - Retail - $40.99
Case: Rosewill R5717-P SL 120mm Fan ATX Mid Tower Computer Case with Tool-Free kits - Retail - $34.99


Total: $424.93

Comments: This build is pretty simple. Decent Dual Core processor, a ton of RAM and a ton of Hard Drive Space. Gaming performance can be boosted with the addition of a PCI-Express Video Card but that wasn't the point of this build.

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Mainstream Build
Price Range: $1000-$1100
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing and Mainstream Gaming


Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8500 Wolfdale 3.16GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $189.99
Motherboard:ASUS P5Q Deluxe LGA 775 Intel P45 Intel Motherboard - Retail - $199.99
RAM: 2x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $44.99 x2 = $89.98
Video Card: MSI R4850-512M Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $192.99
Hard Drive:Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: ZALMAN CNPS9700 LED 110mm 2 Ball CPU Cooler - Retail - $53.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX 620W ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply - Retail - $154.99
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Computer Case With Side Panel - Retail - $119.99


Total: $1110.91

Comments: This build will haul ass for the price. It can play most games on high settings and is open to certain upgrades: faster processor, faster RAM, second/third video card. This specific video card has a very good cooling solution so is a good base for out of the box OCing.

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Mid-Range Build
Price Range: $1500-$1600
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing and Mainstream/High-End Gaming


Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 Wolfdale 3.33GHz 6MB L2 Cache LGA 775 65W Dual-Core Processor - Retail - $274.99
Motherboard: ASUS RAMPAGE FORMULA LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $299.99
RAM: 2x G.SKILL 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066 (PC3 8500) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $79.99 x2 = $159.98
Video Card: 2x HIS Hightech H485F512P Radeon HD 4850 512MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail   - $174.99 x2 = 349.98
Hard Drive: Western Digital Caviar SE16 WD6400AAKS 640GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $84.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan and Fan Controler/Heatsink - Retail - $49.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX 620W ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V 2.91 Power Supply - Retail - $154.99
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Computer Case With Side Panel - Retail - $119.99


Total: $1518.89

Comments: From the Mainstream to Mid-range there is a huge jump in performance (eg. DDR2 -> DDR3, single Radeon HD 4850 -> Crossfired Radeon HD 4850). This build also features the High End X48 (Two 16x PCI-Express Slots) Chipset for advantage of Crossfire over P45 (Two 8x PCI-Express). The last thing that put this build above the mainstream is CPU it is the fastest Dual core one can get and some have even oCed it to 5GHz with Air cooling which is quite remarkable. With a 10x multiplier a 4GHz OC should be a breeze.


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High-End Build
Price Range: $2000-$2100
General Usage: Everything. This Computer will take everything you throw at it and more.


Processor: Intel Core 2 Quad Q9450 Yorkfield 2.66GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor - Retail - $324.99
Motherboard: ASUS Rampage Extreme LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $389.99
RAM: 2x Patriot Extreme Performance 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - $76.99 x2 = $153.98
Video Card: MSI R4870X2-T2D2G-OC Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - $559.99
Hard Drive: Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - $294.99
Optical Drive: LITE-ON Black 20X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 8X DVD+R DL 20X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 12X DVD-RAM 16X DVD-ROM 48X CD-R 32X CD-RW 48X CD-ROM 2MB Cache SATA 20X DVD±R DVD Burner - OEM - $23.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan and Fan Controler/Heatsink - Retail - $49.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-750TX 750W ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply 100 - 240 V UL, CE, CB, TUV, FCC, CCC - Retail - $179.99
Case: Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Case w/ 25CM Fan - Retail - $169.99

Total: $2147.90

Comments: Nothing much to say. Get this and this PC will eat high end games for breakfast spit em' out and come back wanting for more. You could go with a higher end CPU and RAM but meh the price increase for very small increase in performance wouldn't allow us to meet the budget.

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WTF DOES MONEY MEAN Build
Price Range: Who cares?
General Usage: Laughing at everyone else's pathetic rig.


Processor: Intel Core 2 Extreme QX9770 Yorkfield 3.2GHz 12MB L2 Cache LGA 775 136W Quad-Core Processor - Retail - $1,459.99
Motherboard: ASUS Rampage Extreme LGA 775 Intel X48 ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail - $389.99
RAM: 2x OCZ Reaper HPC 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory - Retail - 2x $147.99
Video Card: 2x MSI R4870X2-T2D2G-OC Radeon HD 4870 X2 2GB 512-bit (256-bit x 2) GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFire Supported Video Card - Retail - 2x $559.99
Hard Drive: 2x Western Digital VelociRaptor WD3000GLFS 300GB 10000 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive - OEM - 2x $294.99
Optical Drive: LG Black 16X DVD+R 8X DVD+RW 4X DVD+R DL 16X DVD-R 6X DVD-RW 16X DVD-ROM 40X CD-R 24X CD-RW 40X CD-ROM 4MB Cache SATA Super Multi Blu-ray Disc Burner & HD DVD-ROM Drive - Retail - $269.99
Aftermarket CPU Cooler: Tuniq Tower 120 Universal CPU Cooler 120mm Cooling Fan and Fan Controler/Heatsink - Retail - $49.99
Power Supply: CORSAIR CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / EPS12V 2.91 SLI Ready CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply - Retail - $279.99
Case: Thermaltake Armor Series VA8003BWS Black Full Tower Case w/ 25CM Fan - Retail - $169.99

Total: Do I really have to make-up a total? Honestly if you're considering looking at this rig money isn't an issue.

Comments: What the **** does a budget mean?

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I'll try to keep this thread up to date with the latest hardware.

Also don't limit yourself to Newegg, if you can find the same part at a lower price power to you!

***Prices might not match what I listed as I hastely put this together in the midst of a back to school sale on Newegg so don't rely on my totals being 100% accurate.

****When choosing your parts remember you are the boss. do no hesitate to tailor one of these blueprints to your specific needs. For example if you like the High-End build but prefer lots of storage (750GB+) over High performance drives(10k RPM drives) don't hesitate to look for an alternative.

Last edited by Taknarosh (2008-09-26 18:04)

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

This looks like a pretty good breakdown.

Can I ask for the source? It might be useful for me to have the ability to check for this kind of thing in the near future, I might be getting a new computer by new years.

Well knows he who uses to consider, that our faith and knowledge thrives by exercise, as well as our limbs and complexion. Truth is compared in Scripture to a streaming fountain; if her waters flow not in a perpetual progression, they sicken into a muddy pool of conformity and tradition. A man may be a heretic in the truth; and if he believe things only because his pastor says so, or the Assembly so determines, without knowing other reason, though his belief be true, yet the very truth he holds becomes his heresy.

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

I came up with these. Yeah I'm that bored. =P

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

This could be a useful thread since I was thinking about buying a new gaming rig soon.  However with the high-end rig you have listed I was wondering about the Radeon listed?  I hear ATi's new card is decent but I am not sure if I have enough faith in ATi given the way their business has gone lately.

http://card.mygamercard.net/zaekrex.jpg

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Legal_My_Deagle
This could be a useful thread since I was thinking about buying a new gaming rig soon.  However with the high-end rig you have listed I was wondering about the Radeon listed?  I hear ATi's new card is decent but I am not sure if I have enough faith in ATi given the way their business has gone lately.

The 4870 x2 has put ATi back on top of the Graphics World. The drivers are still a bit immature but after a few months they should make the 4870 x2 the undisputed champ.
http://hothardware.com/articles/ATI-Radeon-HD-4870-X2--AMD-Back-On-Top/

Also the specific one I posted is a factory overclocked one for the same price.

Remember that these are just blueprints feel free to mix and match with parts from companies you prefer.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Legal_My_Deagle
This could be a useful thread since I was thinking about buying a new gaming rig soon.  However with the high-end rig you have listed I was wondering about the Radeon listed?  I hear ATi's new card is decent but I am not sure if I have enough faith in ATi given the way their business has gone lately.

Do you have more faith in Nvidia given the way their business has gone lately?

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

A few things regarding the list:

1) Why go with Intel Atom in small forms PC? Intel Atom is designed for UMPC or smaller devices. Any mATX board with a current generation CPU will perform several folds better than the Atom. Just because it's small and draws little power, it doesn't mean it's ideal.

2) I want to make a point that small forms PC isn't equal to HTPC. You may use it for HTPC purpose, but the limitation of small forms isn't criterion for going with IGP. You may very well be gaming with a small forms PC; in fact, you may even use it as a mobile LAN machine. Either the category needs refinement and narrowing down, or the list needs to change.

3) I feel that there's quite a bit of overlap between the "mainstream" machine and the "midrange" machine. First of all, the word "mainstream" typically means "entry" or "budget" level, not midrange. While we're on the topic of categories, let me give you my perceived segments of the market, and some descriptions of each:

*Special Purpose - ($?) This large category can include HTPC, small forms, or machines that are designed to fit a particular need in the house, instead of a general purpose gaming/work machine.
*Entry Level - ($500~$1000) This machine can play most non-demanding games on the market flawlessly on a regular 19"/20" screen, provides great performance for the investment, and is considered "mainstream" since it appeals to the majority of the PC market.
*Mid-range - ($1000-$1500) This machine can play almost all the games on the market flawlessly on a 24" screen, and will be able to satisfy a heavy multi-tasker in demanding applications, while not breaking your bank.
*High-end - ($2000+) This machine will play Crysis on a large screen. Price isn't the object, and you can brag about your rig in your signature on your favorite forums.
*Enthusiast - ($?) This is its own category because it will use the most overclock-friendly components, and aims to bring performance level unachievable anywhere else. You will want liquid-nitrogen cooling. Your PSU will be 1000W+ and your CPU will have an unlocked multiplier. This PC will have the latest and greatest hardware in every slot and will give you a 3Dmarks score that can best those screenshotted on a hardware review site. Note that you can also have a budget-enthusiast category that is similar to this one except it uses the low end parts in each slot with the highest OC potential.

When you categorize things like this, you will know exactly what parts you need in each PC. For instance, a Zalman9700 isn't nearly enough for the top two categories, as it is not anywhere close to the top performer nowadays. Also, if we want to keep this as a buying guide, it should not link every component to a newegg sales item. It gives the illusion that you're restricted to newegg (which isn't the cheapest source of hardware). The components only need to be listed with name and model, and an estimated market price at the end. If a reader finds a deal somewhere that beats the listed price by a big margin, he can then make his own choice and the guide will serve him exactly as what it is, a guide.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Well again these are just to give people an idea where to start. The links to Newegg are just a reference to fit into a price range. If one can find the same hardware at a better price then power to them.
Do you have a suggestion for the CPU Heatsinks in roughly the same price range? Or at least one for each of the appropriate price ranges?

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

There are many AMD solutions at the small forms level that will do the job. An Athlon 64 bundled with any cheap mATX board can be had for less than $100 nowadays.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr
There are many AMD solutions at the small forms level that will do the job. An Athlon 64 bundled with any cheap mATX board can be had for less than $100 nowadays.

I listed a mini ITX PC. Most Mini ITX cases don't provide enough ventilation to allow anything more powerful than an Atom without the risk of overheating their CPU and other parts. While the Atom is actually passively cooled.
I guess I should make another listing for an mATX SFF build.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

I don't know why you want a mini-ITX. A mini-ITX comes to 170x170 (mm), while a small micro-ATX comes to 171x171. With micro-ATX you can have essentially a machine that is capable of handling a game like WoW, whereas with a mini-ITX you're pretty much limited to using word and browsing websites.

Like I've said in my earlier lengthy post, I don't think the category is proper. You don't make a small form GP machine, you make it with a specific goal in mind, and what kind of parts you choose will greatly depend on that goal. And if you ARE to make a GP small forms machine, I'd still recommend going with micro-ATX as opposed to mini-ITX, since you can then do a lot more with it.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr

Originally posted by: Legal_My_Deagle
This could be a useful thread since I was thinking about buying a new gaming rig soon.  However with the high-end rig you have listed I was wondering about the Radeon listed?  I hear ATi's new card is decent but I am not sure if I have enough faith in ATi given the way their business has gone lately.

Do you have more faith in Nvidia given the way their business has gone lately?

I don't pretend to be completely caught up on hardware, but I was referring more to that ATi hasn't even had a competitive card before this for at least a year or two? - and that I trust nVidia's driver support more.  Also word is that nVidia's new drivers will have Ageia physics support which can massively increase performance with games that use it.  (I am a physics junky)

http://card.mygamercard.net/zaekrex.jpg

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Legal_My_Deagle

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr

Originally posted by: Legal_My_Deagle
This could be a useful thread since I was thinking about buying a new gaming rig soon.  However with the high-end rig you have listed I was wondering about the Radeon listed?  I hear ATi's new card is decent but I am not sure if I have enough faith in ATi given the way their business has gone lately.

Do you have more faith in Nvidia given the way their business has gone lately?

I don't pretend to be completely caught up on hardware, but I was referring more to that ATi hasn't even had a competitive card before this for at least a year or two? - and that I trust nVidia's driver support more.  Also word is that nVidia's new drivers will have Ageia physics support which can massively increase performance with games that use it.  (I am a physics junky)

ATI has had competitive cards in all segments of the market for over a year. Their 3800 series were very much competitive to the 8800's. There was a 6 month down for ATI when the 8800's were first introduced, but that was the only time ATI wasn't competitive, and it was mostly due to the merger. As of now, ATI has the superior product in every price point except for $400+, where the recent Nvidia price drops helped them take back the performance/price lead.

As for physics enabling patch, it might sound extremely appealing to someone like you who isn't informed with the technologies or the market. Without going much into details (and there's actually quite a bit of details), let me clear out some bullet points for you in regard to that:

1) Physics support isn't equivalent to performance increase. Sometimes enabling physics actually hurts performance.
2) Physics support is mostly politics - a PR spin, if you will, that Nvidia uses to compete in the market. ATI cards have been proven to support physics calculation with unauthorized hacks.
3) ATI has its own plan for physics support, and Nvidia merely took the first shot.
4) Physics support isn't a pure hardware issue. In fact, it is correct to say that it isn't a hardware issue at all (read point 2) with modern GPU architectures, and much of what can be done is left to software and game programmers (who have yet to take much advantage of it).

If you want me to elaborate on the bullet points, I can. But I recommend you take up some reading on the whole deal somewhere else, as it's been talked about extensively on most hardware sites. It is correct to say that Nvidia has a major edge in this whole competition - it has a lot more support from game developers than ATI. But also beware that ATI has teamed up with MS and recently with Blizzard on future technology endeavors, too, and Nvidia has been on the bad side of Intel. Once again let me remind you of the incredible power of the PR team from Nvidia in bringing (largely distorted) perceptions to the market. If you value your money, however, you'd do your own critical reading and thinking yourself.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Ya I will do my own researching before I ever buy a PC, don't worry.  Sorry if I come off as an avid nVidia supporter or something, I have always been impartial when buying my graphics cards, I just buy what seems to be best at the time, as evidenced by the fact that my laptop has an nVidia in it and my PC has an old ATi card in it.  I don't feel especially loyal to either company.

That being said, I had heard specifically that somebody had a 700% increase in performance while playing Silverfall after downloading the beta nVidia drivers that support Ageia.  Granted, of course, that is just hearsay and that that was only with Silverall, but still the (admittedly weak) point is that there is at least some potential with this whole Ageia business.  Just dont take that point for more than I mean it to be.

I had read a few articles about physics support though, and I really liked the sound of what can be done with hardware physics support vs software support.  Hardware support basically means much less strain on your CPU and much more potential for the number of physics-enabled objects on screen at once with such support. 

I think it is outstanding though that ATi is back in the game, because it would suck if either ATi or nVidia fell out of it, since such competition beneifts us consumers.  (another reason I don't specifically support either company) smile

http://card.mygamercard.net/zaekrex.jpg

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Physics support means you use part of the GPU processing power to process physics calculation and offload that from the CPU, that's correct. But it also means that you are essentially handicapping your GPU, and possibly hurting the performance even more in a game that is bottlenecked at the GPU, instead of CPU (which actually accounts for the majority of the games today). What makes the Nvidia approach desirable is not so much what a single GPU can do with the patch, but rather the potential of having an outdated and old GPU work as a dedicated physics processor (basically replacing the late PhysX card). In order to do this however, you need to have 1) a dual PCIe mobo (although SLI is not required), and 2) games that actually support physics calculation through Ageia's implementation. The former might be quite the reality if you already have the dual PCIe mobo and wish for a cheaper solution than crossfire in certain titles, that is, if you value the boost in those limited few titles. As of now, physics calculation isn't a standard, and it isn't supported by the majority of the demanding titles (read: I emphasize demanding since most games are likely to run just fine on any modern graphics card without the need of any additional boost). Further complicating the issue is the MS/ATI support for havok.

As I see it, the whole physics on GPU is really just a small step in the overall evolution of GPU into GPGPU and the convergence of GPU and CPU. What Intel is doing with Larrabee is infinitely more revolutionary and interesting, and it's no surprise to see Nvidia spending so much effort promoting the physics package. It's been too long since Nvidia felt any pinch in its own market.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

BTW Errrrrrr I don't know if you can with your Mods powers but If you want to rearrange things or rename things in my post feel free to.

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr
I don't know why you want a mini-ITX. A mini-ITX comes to 170x170 (mm), while a small micro-ATX comes to 171x171. With micro-ATX you can have essentially a machine that is capable of handling a game like WoW


You're claiming that a 171x171 uATX board can run wow? Well as far as I know a mobo of that size won't include a PCI-Express expansion Slot so I really doubt it can run basic games. One would need a 244×244 uATX board to have the space to have a PCI-Express Expansion slot.

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr
Whereas with a mini-ITX you're pretty much limited to using word and browsing websites.


That's the point. You know a lot of people use their computer for that sole purpose.

[Edit:] I adjusted the coolers for the two more expensive PCs. And the RAM of the high end PC.

http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/1329/pricevq3.jpghttp://img145.imageshack.us/img145/1173/canadienssc6.gif

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

I don't know if you can find a 780G board that's 171x171, but the integrated HD 3200 is enough to run UT3 at medium settings at 1024x768 at 24FPS, and I'd imagine it'd run WoW just fine. And if you must, you can always just get one with a PCIe slot; it's not like it'll make it that much bigger if you don't install a lot of components in there.

That's the point. You know a lot of people use their computer for that sole purpose.

Well, the point is not exactly that. The point is that building a small forms PC limits your options to what you can do, and you should have something specific in mind. I don't know how much someone would value the size difference between a mini-ITX to say a uATX, or that between two different sized uATX, or if that person values the size difference more than the functional difference. It's all a matter of your need, hence the recommendation to either narrow down the category or change it completely.

<d-end> masturbate
<d-end> watch anime
<d-end> those are the 2 things I do when I'm bored!

Re: Planning to build a new computer? Read Here first!

Originally posted by: Errrrrrr
I don't know if you can find a 780G board that's 171x171, but the integrated HD 3200 is enough to run UT3 at medium settings at 1024x768 at 24FPS, and I'd imagine it'd run WoW just fine. And if you must, you can always just get one with a PCIe slot; it's not like it'll make it that much bigger if you don't install a lot of components in there.

The 171x171 would be too small I believe. The 780G is a ridiculously good chipset I put together a HTPC build for another guy on another forum I read and the 780G fits PERFECTLY for HTPC.

That's the point. You know a lot of people use their computer for that sole purpose.

Well, the point is not exactly that. The point is that building a small forms PC limits your options to what you can do, and you should have something specific in mind. I don't know how much someone would value the size difference between a mini-ITX to say a uATX, or that between two different sized uATX, or if that person values the size difference more than the functional difference. It's all a matter of your need, hence the recommendation to either narrow down the category or change it completely.

Yeah I called it:

Small Form Factor Budget build
Price Range: $200-$300
General Usage: Internet Browsing, E-Mail, Videos, Word Processing, Little to no Gaming possible.

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