Protein shakes (Page 2 of 3)

There's a lot of disagreement on this among doctors, trainers and the like. In fact there are a lot of studies to show that intense short exercise is just as effective as long slow distance training, while putting less strain on the body. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-inten … ite_note-2 if you want a specific study. My anecdotal experience tends to agree. I used to run about 30-35 miles a week, but ever since may I've been doing crossfit, which is basically high strength and intensity workouts. I've cut my running to almost nothing, about 0-8 miles a week at most. The result is that I've gained 25lbs while maintaining the same body fat (5-7% on those scales) AND I cut over 15 minutes off my half marathon time, not to mention significantly increased general strength.

The other problem you get with extreme amounts of endurance training (IIRC the studies point to 1 hour or more as endurance) is oxidative stress. The result is looking like

instead of healthy like

It could be that to compete at that level, the training is necessary; but for the average person looking to get fit, or participate in some competitions every so often that kind of stress on the body is unnecessary and basically unhealthy.

No doubt I could see more gains if I did some LSD training. The problem is I don't want to screw myself over to do it.

Those marathon runners do NOT look healthy at all. They looked aged and tense. Look at their legs just above their ankles (or hell, just their legs in general). That is the type of frailty that occurs as a result of high volume workouts.

My point wasn't that Michael Johnson would be able to win every event running in the Olympics. My point is he is not sacrificing his body like those marathon runners are. While I'm sure he wouldn't win a 10K at the Olympics, I'd be willing to bet he'd beat your average "serious" runner who does 40+ miles per week. If you are not a professional endurance athlete, there is no good reason to do all their crazy LSD workouts.

I guess I'm not a normal person who is just trying to be in shape. All I know is that the kind of workouts I do are pretty standard in collegiate rowing. As far as doing marathons and 100k's those were just 1 time things to say I've done them, not part of training at all, and doing the 100k was just about the most miserable thing I have ever done btw. Currently (training for spring racing- 2000m) I am doing some interval work, 4x 10m 1m on 1m off, lots of 30 second pieces, lots of 4-5m pieces, 10-15m pieces, but also easy 30 minute pieces, other things aswell. I train for everything, but the most consistently successful rowers have always had a higher percentage of slow twitch muscles than other competitors (~80%+). During my off seasons (summer) when doing lots of long 50-75 minute pieces those are only 3 days a week, the other 3 days a week are spent lifting, so I'm never completely devoting myself at any point during any part of my season to just longer pieces. Fall season (5000m races) my work tends to be at a happy medium between winter/summer training. Perhaps I just haven't given enough specifics and that is why you guys are in doubt of what I am doing.

You can have personal trainers tell you what is the best, you can read about all sorts of things on the internet - studies telling you one thing and other studies telling you something else, everyone has their own training philosophy. My coaches have all been champions on the national level, so far I've seen huge gains by doing what they have told me to - not like I have much of an option anyway, so I see no reason to change.

@ The marathon runners, I spose they do look a bit frail. I think part of that is just how terrible running is for your body along with trying to weigh as little as possible so they can be as efficient as possible. I never run, it's much too hard on my joints and I always tend to get shin splits. Biking/Rowing are very low impact and I don't think such problems plague them (though I have seen bikers with anorexic looking arms in the tour de france too often). But with the occasional long distance training I don't think you would start to look like those runners at all.

I used to fuck around with whey protein, but anything else i wouldnt mess with. Putting all of these chemicals in your body cant be good for your long term health. Also if your body is naturally skinny there is no point in trying to load it up with carbs because your bodies metabolism will just burn it off. If you have a small frame trying to bulk up looks really awkward, you want to go for the athletic look, tone up. People who bulk up after the age of 30 their muscles start to atrophy and they have a nice set of man boobs.

As for your workout krall I applaud you for staying focused on a work out.

I would suggest that you try doing your push ups differently if you want to build muscle. It's not about cranking out exercises its about the quality of the motions. I could probably do 60 pushs ups in a row. But i really get no where by doing them so quickly, all im doing is working the fast twitch muscles not the whole muscle region.

I suggest you do isometric push ups. Stand up next to a wall your feet are straight. Get on the ground with your hands close to your chest and rise very slowly. To keep track you could count up to 10 when you rise and when you slowly descend count back from 10 to 0. I would suggest doing that 3 times a week and doing cardio 5 times a week if you want a six pack. Same thing goes for crunchs and sit ups. The slower you go, the better your results are.

If you need other works outs "holla back."

Dieting is the other half, but your abbs need to be defined through workouts if you want the six pack. Cut out soda and beer, that helps tremendously.

I recently bought 5kgs (11pounds) of whey protein for roughly 120 dollars. I guess thats a decent buy compared to what you guys told me.

I currently work out 3 times a week, mostly lifting weights but also some combined weight/endurance training once a week. Seems to serve me well.

Casein is awesome to take before you go to bed. Whey is better for before and after work outs. I won't go into detail because I'm sure you already know why.

Actually I wouldn't mind if it you did. I usually take ½ of the daily recommendad portion in the mornings (8am) workout around 1-3 pm and eat the other half of whey portion around 5-7 pm.

The main reason I bought whey protein to begin with is because I severely lack a steady protein intake through my eating habbits and I figured this would fill in whatever hole.

I was told also to eat extra protein even on days when I dont work out.

I just started a new program 2-split 4 times weekly (if my personal schedule fits) with back/chest and shoulder/arm. I'm feeling as if I'm off to a good start however (neglected the fact that I have a shoulder-damage from way past that started to irritate me, guess I have to slow down on the intense shoulder exercises).

I stand by the high intensity training(HIT) workout. I got great gains from doing HIT with very little time. It made workouts very fun and satisfying for me too because I got to go to failure. Going to failure gave me The Pump. I just wouldn't do HIT for your shoulder exercises though. Also HIT isn't recommended for everyone. If not done correctly, meaning with good form and with attention to what your body is telling you, you can get hurt.

I'll tell you a little about it but you can od research and get a better idea of it. There are also YouTube vids on it to show you how to do it correctly.

HIT consists on 1 or 2 sets per exercise. It's really meant to be only 1 but some people have modified it to 1-2. I'd do 2 if I feel I didn't work the exercise to the full intensity I could or I just wanted The Pump. Anyways these sets are done to failure. Failure is doing as many reps until your muscles can not do anymore. But put on enough weight where you will fail about 8-12 reps. More reps=more chance of pump.

Doing the exercise to failure is the key here. Our bodies are amazing and adapt very well. Example, it will build callouses one parts of the body that continue to get hammered with with contact. Also our muscles will sense that it's in danger when it can't lift a certain weight. The body will begin to build muscle quicker than if you were doing normal volume training of 3 sets of 10 reps. This will put your body in an anabolic state throughout the day even when you sleep. This makes you burn calories and fat while sleeping.

Also with HIT, you train the whole body when you do go workout. Which should be 3 time a week. Working a body part a session and working that part only once a week seems silly to me now that I have tried HIT.

I have had nothing but good experiences with HIT. I suggest trying it out. If not for the results but also to change up your routine a bit. Bodies will get accustomed to certain routines and "expect" or "know" something is about to happen so it won't benefit from the workout as well if you constantly do the same workout in the same order of exercises. Like if you work chest/shoulder on Monday to arms/back on Wednesday to legs on Friday. You have to switch it all up like Monday-legs to Wed-Shoulders/arms to Fri-chest/back. This is just an example not something I would do.

With HIT being a total body/session thing, I make sure not to go in the same order of body parts being worked when I o to the gym. One time I might start with chest. Another with legs.

In the past few weeks, I have been trying a whole range of protein powders. I figured I'd share my opinions here on taste, along with some basic nutrition differences.

EAS 100% Whey (Chocolate)   $13/1 lb
1 scoop: 23g protein, 120 calories, 65mg cholesterol

I bought this at my grocery store a while back, mostly because I've used EAS products before (Myoplex, which is a mixed-protein + minerals meal replacement shake). I was thoroughly unimpressed. The taste is very watery, and it's got a lot of cholesterol.  Pretty expensive for a whey-only product.  Has a tendency to clump, must use a mixer.

Metabolic Drive Low Carb (Vanilla)   $30/2.2 lbs
1 scoop: 21g protein, 100 calories, <5mg cholesterol

I bought this after my trainer lent me some of his powder. I love the taste. This is an expensive product because it uses a mixture of micellular casein and whey. This is a great product for using in the morning, or in the middle of the day any day. Extremely low cholesterol.

Dymatize Elite Whey (Gourmet Vanilla)  $30/5 lbs
1 scoop: 24g protein, 114 calories, 15mg cholesterol.

Cid recommended this to me.  The stuff is awesome. Firstly, it can be made without a shaker, you can just add powder to a glass of water and then stir it in with a spoon. Really convenient. Taste is great, I could drink this stuff all day. Since this is a pure whey product, I use it post-workout mainly.

Store brand (Chocolate) ~$30/2 lbs
1 scoop: 23g protein, 130 calories, 60mg cholesterol.

I did not buy this. I tried it from my uncle when I visited last weekend.  I can't really say anything good about it. Like the EAS powder, the taste was watery, the cholesterol high. I forget the name, but it's not the GNC brand, perhaps another nutrition store? I'll find out later.

Metabolic Drive Complete (Chocolate)  $32/2.2 lbs
3 scoops: 41g protein, 310 calories, 100mg cholesterol

This is a meal replacement powder. Unlike the other powders which make more of a chocolate milk-like drink; MD Complete uses more than twice as much powder per unit water and contains additional carbs as well as lots of vitamins. It ends up as a shake-type consistency. I only use it if I plan to skip a meal on the way out to a workout, or something like that. Because it's so thick, you absolutely must use a mixer to make this.

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Due to the price/taste, I have to strongly recommend Dymatize for the pure whey powder, and Metabolic Drive Low Carb as the whey/casein combo powder. Those are the ones I plan on continuing to buy when I run out of these, which won't be for a while.

In the process of using all these powders, I've learned a bunch of neat tricks to make using protein powders more convenient as well.

• Washing out a yogurt or sour cream container makes a very good shaker for making your protein drinks. Add water to about halfway in a sour cream container, add your scoop(s) of powder, put the lid on securely, and shake vigorously for 20sec over a sink with your hand clamped over the cover. After about 10-20 uses, the containers tend to crack or fall apart, but they're better than buying a purpose-built shaker since if you are having trouble washing it one day, you can just throw the container out.

• Modern protein drinks taste good, but they taste even better when cold. Adding a few ice cubes makes a big difference.

• 3-4 slices of banana also tastes good in the drink.

• A neat trick if you don't like your bananas to go brown because you only used half of it,  sort of a combination of the above two tips: slice a few bananas into pieces. Then take a glass of water, and dip each piece into the water and then place the piece into a zip-loc freezer bag. Put the bag in the freezer, trying not to let the pieces clump together too much (lie the bag flat). Next time you go to make your protein shake/drink, just grab a few banana slices from your freezer bag. The thin film of ice will have kept the banana from turning brown, and it will last several weeks in the freezer. When you drop it in the drink, the ice melts off, cooling your drink, and you just have these awesome tasting cold banana slices in there.

• Add powder to water, never the other way around, you'll get less powder clumping.

• Depends on what you like, but vanilla is generally more flexible than other flavors due to the ability to add stuff to it. Some people use a blender and add nuts or raisins or other stuff.

"Throw away logic and kick reason to the curb"

Work hard, play rough, and eat right.

Everything else is snake oil for taking your money imo.
I know people put a lot of stock into supplements, I can understand why.
But the simple truth, known to all of you, is that eating right, PROPER exercise, and decent lifestyle choices (drinking, drugs, etc) is going to have a bigger effect than all these potions, powders, and pills.
Not trying to down anyone who's using these, but you don't need 'em. You can do it by yourself, just be tough enough on yourself to get it accomplished.

Just my 2copper.

Everyone has their line they draw.  We're not discussing testosterone or any other illicit drugs here, the vast majority of this thread has been discussing weight training and protein powders, and specifically two sorts of protein powders: whey-based and casein-based. If you don't even agree with those, that's fine; but I suspect you don't even know what is indeed in the powders.

Let's just demystify things here: These both are just purified dairy products with natural flavorings such as dextrose and plant extracts or artificial flavors such as splenda, nothing more.

For the most part, aside from water, milk is made from five components:
- Butterfat is emulsified fat which is found in all drinkable milk products (even skim milk, in small amounts) and butter, cheese, yogurt, etc.
- Casein is a very high quality protein (indeed, one of the highest quality complete proteins) that has a nice property of absorbing slowly. This makes it great for recovery.
- Whey is the highest quality protein we know of in terms of bioavailability, and absorbs very quickly into the bloodstream, meaning it is great for post-workout.
- Lactose is the sugar in milk, and causes allergic reactions in some or simply stomach upset in others.
- Milk Solids include precipitated calcium and vitamins, and some other bits. Some of these can trigger allergic reactions as well.

Now that we've broken it down, let's talk about how to get these from natural foods.

Casein is easy. Cottage cheese (and farmer's cheese, which is similar) is high in casein, and is generally pretty low in fat. Cottage cheese is also low in lactose (but not lactose-free) and therefore generally okay for those with decreased lactase enzyme activity. If you can stand the taste, you could live on cottage cheese and never touch a casein powder. There is a catch, the price. Good quality cottage cheese goes for $5 to $7 for a tub at my supermarket; this is about 2x to 4x the cost per gram of available casein as the powder is. I still have it occasionally because I like the variety, but couldn't stand or afford to have it twice daily.

Whey is much harder to get. Whey is a natural byproduct of making cheese (and to some extent yogurt); when you press the cheese in the cheesecloth after adding the bacteria or breaking agent, the whey starts to separate. Mostly, it is drained and discarded. Actually, most industrial plants turn whey into feed for livestock. Why is this? because by itself, whey tastes like ass. It's pretty icky and nobody really eats it at home anymore (though ancient history and nursery rhymes show that people did indeed know the value of whey nutritionally for thousands of years.) Whey is also VERY high in lactose, which will trigger a lot of indigestion, even in people who aren't normally lactose intolerant. You can find some whey in yogurt, but it's a small percentage, and yogurt has more calories, as well as lactose.

I'm not going to argue that protein powders are "all natural" but they aren't purely chemical either; they're mostly just a mix of isolated milk proteins, made from similar processes as people make various cheeses. Aside from my before-mentioned cost argument, there's the convenience, the good taste, and the fact that they are usually 98% or more lactose-free, which is an important factor for many adults who are into weightlifting and will normally be consuming 4x the dairy of your average person. They also tend to have much less cholesterol per gram of protein than their cheese/milk counterparts.

Like I said earlier in this thread; any amount of exercising is better than not doing so, and you will improve almost continually with regular exercise and no supplementation whatsoever.  But with supplementation, not only can you do so in a much healthier manner (not being nutrient deprived) but you will do so faster. This is backed up by coaches, athletes, and vast amounts of research and journals on the topic.

"Throw away logic and kick reason to the curb"